And the Wind Whispered…

[This post is my translation of an excellent short story by one of the most gifted storytellers of our time, O.V.Vijayan. The translation from Malayalam is a feeble effort, because such distant translations are not merely between languages, but cultures. The untranslatable expressions are marked with asterisks. Enjoy!]

Reached Kanjikad from Palghat by Coimbatore street. From there on, it was unpaved dirt road to the mountains. Even the rough taxi Jeep found that hard to take. This was Theyunni’s second trip here in the last ten years and he had no complaints about the roughness now.

“Ditch ahead”, Driver said, glancing at the dirt road in front.

“If you want to stop here, it’s okay”, Theyunni offered, “I can walk.”

It’s about two miles from here. Accustomed as he was to the comfort of limousine rides between airports and star hotels, the prospect of the hard hike did not discourage Theyunni.

“Nah. We’ll go slow, sit tight.”


The Jeep carefully negotiated the winding mountain road. Theyunni glanced at the wild valley as if for the first time. The sunshine cooled by the hillside, the east winds tunnelled through the mountain passes and roaring towards Palghat…

“The trees are all gone, aren’t they, Driver?”, Theyunni observed.

“All downed. Was forests here till about five years ago. Elephants used to come down.”

Evet, last time when he was here, there were huge trees on either side. Trees he didn’t know the names of. There were crickets all around carrying on with their shrill orchestra. Theyunni recalled that journey. He was coming back to Bombay after a European trip and his wife was at the airport. Dedi, “There is a letter from home, looks like *Brother’s handwriting.”

“Wonder what is happening. Didn’t you open it, Phoebe?”

“You know I don’t open your letters.”

When the car was moving towards Juhu, Theyunni stole a glance at Phoebe’s face behind the wheel. Like a flawless marble sculpture with golden hair dancing in the wind. It was against her culture to open her husband’s letters. There were many things in her culture that attracted him — her confident courage in kissing him in that garden few years ago, proclaiming, “I love you”. If the relationship were to turn sour in the years to come, the honesty and integrity that would make her say, “I do not love you any more, we have to get divorced”. These were the challenges that inspired him. He remembered the journey home to tell *Father that he was in love with Phoebe, his fellow-student at Stanford. Father did not say anything against it, just smiled his sweet, thoughtful smile. It was *Mother — “We had Devaki’s horoscope looked at…”

Devaki was a distant relative. The daughter of some in-land farmer. Hiding his contempt for horoscopes, Theyunni comforted Mother, “That is not much, Mother. We didn’t give our word.”

Nobody said anything for a while. Then Mother said, “Isn’t understanding as big as word? It’s like Devaki has married you in her heart.”

“It’s the boy’s decision, Madhavi,” Father said, “Why do you want to say this and that?”

Mother withdrew herself, “I didn’t say anything…”

“Don’t worry about Mother’s complaints, Kutta. Bu yüzden, do you like this Phoebe?”

Theyunni was a little embarrassed, “Yes.”

“Will an American girl like to live in this old family house of ours, Kutta?”, Mother inquired.

“Why wouldn’t she?”

Father said, “It’s not as though they are going to come live here, öyle?”

“So Father and Son have decided that as well,” Mother said, “that they don’t want to live here?”

“Wherever we live, we’ll come here first, Mother.”

Theyunni saw Mother’s eyes well up. After blessing Phoebe and wishing Devaki well in her life, Mother said, “I won’t ask you to change your mind. Ancak, will you look after Father, Kutta?”

“Of course.”

“You remember how he used to be? His body is getting old…”

Father intervened again with his smile, “Madhavi, why do you say such things and make him unhappy? Don’t pay any attention to her, Kutta.”

Even during the novelty of his love, Theyunni could feel *Devaki’s true meaning in his *rustic heart — the farmer bride who would sweep the floor and light the evening lamp. Mother said, “There was only one thing on my mind — your sister-in-law is not able-bodied. If it had been Devaki, there was a hope that she would look after your father in his old age…”

Theyunni didn’t say anything then. Even in the later years, he couldn’t say anything about that. Phoebe, who never opened her husband’s letters, drove skillfully through the streets of Juhu. When Father fell sick years after the marriage, Phoebe advised, “Your little town is actually a village. Why don’t we take him to a good hospital in a city? We can easily afford that.”

What Father needed was nearness and touch to die peacefully. Theyunni came home alone with those and saw him off. Mother also died in the old family house. Phoebe was back at Stanford then. She sent a formal condolence telegram. *Devaki‘s meaning again filled his mind.

In Juhu, Theyunni read Brother’s letter. “I’m not doing too well, Kutta. Just to let you know. I won’t ask you to take time off your busy schedule and come by these forests. Just think of me, same effect as seeing. Didn’t even let Sreekumar know. I was worried that he might get anxious and take a trip — not easy to come here from Cambridge, öyle? If only your sister-in-law had been alive… Weaknesses of an old heart…”

The Jeep continued it’s laborious journey negotiating an occasional ditch and gutter.

“Sorry about the trouble, Driver,” Theyunni tried to comfort the driver.

“Nah, just doing my job.”

Must be another mile from here. It was after his wife’s death that Brother decided to resign from service and move to the high lands. Theyunni vehemently opposed that decision. “Why are you moving to this god-forsaken land in Palghat among leopards and wild boars? Dahası, you could be in service for another 10 Yıl. Even after retiring, you know that a nuclear physicist can do so many things…”

Brother’s reply came, “There are debts that one owes — to one’s country, one’s community, one’s family. I feel that I have repaid my dues to the best of my ability. There are some other obligations that I have to take care of. That’s is why I’m seeking refuge in these valleys.”

Brother never mentioned what those obligations were. Theyunni didn’t inquire either.

The soft-spoken Brother took a decision only after much reasoning; it was not easy to make him go back on them. Daha sonra, Brother wrote about his camp-site: about four miles off the road, there were fertile lands lying just outside the woods. Brother built a house there, among coconut palms, vegetables, mango trees… Dirt walls, wooden ceiling and roofs of clay tiles. It was at some distance from anywhere. Ancak, there was a farmer, Ponnuswami, living in a hut nearby. Brother could ask Ponnuswami for help if needed. Apart from that, he was quite alone in that valley. Theyunni could not figure out the meaning of that penance and forgot about it. Years went by. But when Phoebe handed over that unopened letter, he suddenly felt that he should go there in a hurry.

“Iyi, Phoebe, I’ll go and see what’s going on.”

“What is the name of that place? Kanjikad, değil mi?”


“Brother had invited me to go and see the mountains.”

“Evet, I remember.”

“Must be a perfect place for get-away vacation. But it’s dangerous to get sick there. Why don’t you bring him here? We could have him treated at Jeslock or something.”

Phoebe was repeating her suggestion on treatments. Theyunni remembered the last time the suggestion was offered and it made him uneasy.

“We can’t get inside his mind, Phoebe. I’ll go there and see.”

That was how Theyunni came here for the first time, ten years ago. Not only was he anxious about Brother’s health and solitary life, he also wanted to give Brother a piece of his mind about the untimely penance. When he took a taxi from Coimbatore airport to go to Kanjikad, his mind was filled with impatience and hard feelings towards Brother. The driver got discouraged by the sight of ditches and gutters in the dirt road. It didn’t take too much to provoke Theyunni.

“I could break the axile if I drove up this way,” complained the driver who was Tamil.

“How much does this stupid car of yours cost?”

“Sorry Sir, didn’t mean to…”

“If your car breaks, let it break. I’ll give you what it costs. Drive.”

When he got off the car, Theyunni saw Brother taking a walk in the field — looking bright and healthy.

“Why did you come all this way, Kutta?”, Brother commented on the advisability of the trip.

“You can say that. Living in the forests, writing letters about getting sick, how could I ignore it?”

“Come in.” Brother took him inside the house.

Theyunni looked around and found everything unsatisfactory. “Why do you punish yourself like this?”

“Do I look as though this is punishment?”

Nobody said anything for a while. Then Theyunni inquired, “Who treated you while you were ill?”

“Teat?! Nobody!”

“What am I supposed to say about that?”

Brother smiled, “You don’t get it, öyle mi, Kutta?”

“What do you do for food?”

“I have asked Ponnuswami’s wife to show up. To cook something for you. Me, this is all I eat.”

He pointed to the husks of two young coconuts in the basket. “That was breakfast. Two more for dinner.”

“That is you diet?!”

“Not just diet, medicine as well!”

When it got dark, Theyunni wanted to know, “Brother, what if some thieves show up?”

Brother laughed heartily, “Four white *mundu, four cotton shawls, two towels and some clay pots. That’s all this house holds. The thief is quite peaceful by nature, it’s our avarice that makes him do this and that!”

After dinner, they laid down to sleep — on the floor, on sleeping mats. For Theyunni, it was the first time in a long while without the air conditioner. The winds roared outside the house. Through the mountain passes, like the loud waves in an uptide.


“Evet, Brother?”

“You hear that?”

“The winds, Sağ?”

“Evet, but to you hear them?”

“Evet, Yapmam. Why do you ask?”

Brother was silent for a while in the darkness. Then he said, “Yapamaz, you don’t hear them.”

It was with the same dissatisfaction at Brother’s life in the wilderness that Theyunni went back to Bombay. Brother said, seeing him off, “It was a mistake, Kutta. A weakness. Felt like writing to you when I was ill; I won’t bother you like this again. There aren’t any illnesses that these valleys can’t cure. And if there are, do humans have medicines for them?”

Şimdi, it was ten years after those words that Theyunni was coming back. Phoebe was not with him any more. She showed her natural honesty and told him that the love between them had dried out. Theyunni did not fly from Bombay. He took the train to Palghat along with numerous other people. Like in his childhood, in second class. Two day journey. Hills and woods and rivers and villages slowly went by in the window as the train ambled towards Palghat. The old family house was no longer there. So he rested in a hotel and set out for Kanjikad the next morning. His gruffiness during the last journey ten years ago had disappeared now. Theyunni felt that his peacefulness was spreading to the fellow passengers and even the landscapes.

The Jeep driver also was friendliness personified.

“Hard trip, değil mi, Driver?”

“Nah, we are quite used to these. A little worried about your trouble, that is all.”

Brother’s fences and steps appeared at a distance.

“Over there, Driver.”

“Isolated house, değil mi, Sir?”


Ponnuswami was waiting by the house. He stepped down to welcome Theyunni. They looked at each other; Ponnuswami wiped his tears.

“He had asked me not to telegram, that is why I wrote a letter instead.” Ponnuswami said, “I am sorry.”

“Not at all, you were respecting Brother’s wishes. I understand.”

Ponnuswami walked over to the backyard. There was a small plot where a Thulasi plant was beginning to take root. Ash remnants of the pyre around it.

“This is it,” Ponnuswami said. “The bones were dropped in the Peroor river. If there are some other rituals you want to do… Ancak,…”

“Evet, Ponnuswami?”

“He said that no rituals were necessary. That he had uprooted the rituals. I am not educated, just thought that he was talking about some sacred state.”

“That must be what he meant.”

“Is Sreekumar coming up?”

“I had telephoned him from Bombay. He is not coming. He had told me one thing — that this land and house are for you.”

Ponnuswami had gone beyond such earthly things. “He also had told me the same thing; I didn’t want to tell you. Ancak, I don’t need any of this. You or Sreekumar could sell these…”

“Brother’s wishes, Ponnuswami. We must respect them.”

“Iyi, if you insist.”

“How many children do you have?”


“Iyi, this will be a good place for them to grow up in.”

Ponnuswami bowed once again, “If you ever want to come back and live here, my family and I will get out of here for you.”

“That won’t be necessary, Ponnuswami.”

I don’t deserve to live here, Theyunni said to himself. They got back into the house.

“You take rest. I will get you a young coconut from the fields.”

“The driver is waiting in the Jeep outside. Ask him to come inside and have something to drink.”

When Ponnuswami brought the young coconuts, Theyunni said, “You can go home now, if you like. I’m fine.”

Ponnuswami left. Theyunni said to the driver. “Do you think you can stay here overnight?”

The driver expressed his disagreement through silence.

“Didn’t plan that way when we set out,” Theyunni said. “This is Brother’s house. I came here because he died, couldn’t get here before.”

The driver turned attentive. Theyunni continued, “Feel like sleeping here for a night.”

The driver’s disagreement melted away silently. “I can stay.”

“I can pay you whatever you want for staying.”

“That won’t be necessary.”

Time turned red and went down on the hilltops. Theyunni went inside and went through Brother’s wooden box. Three white mundu’s, laundered, three cotton shawls and two towels. Theyunni’s sadness dripped into them. When he went to bed, he was not sad any more, a kind of gratified grief. A fulfillment of love and traditions. He slept with the childhood dreams of fairy tales. Late in the night, he woke up. He listened to the music of the winds. After this night, it would be the trip back to the city. Theyunni could feel Brother’s kindness in the winds. The winds muttered the unknown *Manthras that marked the end of that kindness and life, some *distant baby voices… A night full of sacred whispers, this was the *justification of lifetime.

Theyunni listened to the whispers and slept, awaiting the morning.

Story So Far …

In the early sixties, Santa Kumari Amma decided to move to the High Ranges. She had recently started working with KSEB which was building a hydro-electric project there.The place was generically called the High Ranges, even though the ranges weren’t all that high. People told her that the rough and tough High Ranges were no place for a country girl like her, but she wanted to go anyways, prompted mainly by the fact that there was some project allowance involved and she could use any little bit that came her way. Her family was quite poor. She came from a small village called Murani (near a larger village called Mallappalli.)

Around the same time B. Thulasidas (better known as Appu) also came to the High Ranges. His familty wasn’t all that poor and he didn’t really need the extra money. But he thought, hey rowdy place anyway, what the heck? Iyi, to make a long story short, they fell in love and decided to get married. This was some time in September 1962. A year later Sandya was born in Nov 63. And a little over another year and I came to be! (This whole stroy, bu arada, is taking place in the state of Kerala içinde Hindistan. Iyi, that sentence was added just to put the links there, just in case you are interested.) There is a gorgeous hill resort called David'in (meaning three rivers) where my parents were employed at that time and that’s where I was born.

 [casual picture] Just before 1970, they (and me, which makes it we I guess) moved to Trivandrum, the capital city of Kerala. I lived in Trivandrum till I was 17. Lots of things happened in those years, but since this post is still (and always will be) work in progress, I can’t tell you all about it now.

Içinde 1983, I moved to Madras, to do my BTech in Electronics and Communication at İİT, Çubuklu pamuklu kumaş. (They call the IITs the MIT of India, only much harder to get in. In my batch, there were about 75,000 students competing for about 2000 places. I was ranked 63 among them. I’m quite smart academically, you see.) And as you can imagine, lots of things happened in those four years as well. But despite all that, I graduated in August 1987 and got my BTech degree.

Içinde 1987, after finishing my BTech, I did what most IITians are supposed to do. I moved to the states. Upstate New York was my destination. I joined the Physics Department arasında Syracuse Üniversitesi to do my PhD in High Energy Physics. And boy, did a lot of things happen during those 6 Yıl! Half of those 6 years were spent at Cornell University Ithaca,,en,Neil doğdu,,en,hangi ayrıca benim "büyük resmi gelişmiş,,en,Story”One thought Ana Kadar,,en,Singapur & nbsp Kantitatif Finans ABD Parçacık Fiziği Gönderen;,,en,& Nbsp; Fizik ötesi,,en.

That was in Aug. 1987. Then in 1993 Yedi, the prestigious French national research organization ( CNRS – “Centre national de la recherche scientifique”) hired me. I moved to Fransa to continue my research work at ALEPH, CERN. My destination in France was the provencal city of Marsilya. My home institute was “Centre de Physique des Particules de Marseille” veya CPPM. Elbette, I didn’t speak a word of French, but that didn’t bother me much. (Before going to the US in 1987, I didn’t speak much English/Americanese either.)

End of 1995, on the 29th of Dec, I got married to Kavita. In early 1996, Kavita also moved to France. Kavita wasn’t too happy in France because she felt she could do much more in Singapore. She was right. Kavita is now an accomplished entrepreneur with two boutiques in Singapore and more business ideas than is good for her. She has won many awards and is a minor celebrity with the Singapore media. [Wedding picture]

Içinde 1998, I got a good offer from what is now the Infocomm Araştırma Enstitüsü and we decided to move to Singapore. Among the various personal reasons for the move, I should mention that the smell of racisim in the Marseilles air was one. Although every individual I personally met in France was great, I always had a nagging feeling that every one I did not meet wanted me out of there. This feeling was further confirmed by the immigration clerks at the Marignane airport constantly asking me to “Mettez-vous a cote, beyefendi” and occassionally murmuring “les francais d’abord.”  [Anita Smiles]

A week after I moved to Singapore, on the 24rth of July 1998, Anita was born. Incredibly cute and happy, Anita rearranged our priorities and put things in perspective. Five years later, on the 2nd of May 2003, Neil was born. He proved to be even more full of smiles.  [Neil Smiles more!]

In Singapore, I worked on a lot of various body-based measurements generating several patents and papers. Towards the end of my career with A-Star, I worked on brain signals, worrying about how to make sense of them and make them talk directly to a computer. This research direction influenced my thinking tremendously, though not in a way my employer would’ve liked. I started thinking about the role of perception in our world view and, consequently, in the theories of physics. I also realized how these ideas were not isolated musings, but were atriculated in various schools of philosophy. This line of thinking eventually ended up in my book, Unreal Evren.

Towards the second half of 2005, I decided to chuck research and get into quantitative finance, which is an ideal domain for a cash-strapped physicist. It turned out that I had some skills and aptitudes that were mutually lucrative to my employers and myself. My first job was as the head of the quantitative analyst team at OCBC, a regional bank in Singapore. Bu ofis orta iş, coşkun tüccarlar, risk yönetimini içeren ve yavaşlatmada, gave me a thorough overview of pricing models and, perhaps more importantly, Bankanın risk iştahının çatışma odaklı uygulama mükemmel anlayışı.

 [Dad] Daha sonra, içinde 2007, I moved to Standard Chartered Bank, as a senior quantitative professional taking care of their in-house trading platform, which further enhanced my "big picture" outlook and inspired me to write Kantitatif Geliştirme İlkeleri. I am rather well recognized in my field, and as a regular columnist for the Wilmott Dergisi, I have published several articles on a variety of topics related to quants and quantitative finance, which is probably why John Wiley & Sons Ltd. asked me to write this book.

Despite these professional successes, on the personal front, 2008 has been a year of sadness. I lost my father on the 22nd of October. The death of a parent is a rude wake-up call. It brings about feelings of loss and pain that are hard to understand, and impossible to communicate. And for those of us with little gift of easy self-expression, they linger for longer than they perhaps should.

Evren – Boyut ve Yaş

Ben onlar hakkında bir galaksiyi bulundu okuduğumda beni rahatsız oldu bu soru haberi 13 milyar ışık yılı uzakta. Bu ifadenin Benim anlayış: Bir mesafede 13 milyar ışıkyılı, Bir galaksi vardı 13 milyar yıl önce, şimdi ondan ışığı görebilecek şekilde. Bu evren, en azından olduğu anlamına olmaz 26 milyar yaşında? Bu galaksi hakkında almış olmalı 13 göründüğü yerde milyar yıl ulaşmak için, ve ondan ışık başka almalıdır 13 milyar yıl Bize ulaşmak için.

Soruma cevap, Martin ve Swansont (Ben varsayalım kim akademik phycisists vardır) Benim yanılgıları işaret ve aslında daha fazla bilgi edinmek için bana sor. All I asimile olduğumda cevap verilecektir, o görünür! 🙂

Bu tartışma, Big Bang teorisi üzerine Yazımın başlangıcı olarak yayınlanmıştır, Bir veya iki gün içinde geliyor.

Mowgli 03-26-2007 10:14 PM

Evren – Boyut ve Yaş
I was reading a post in stating that they found a galaxy at about 13 milyar ışık yılı uzakta. Ne ifadesi anlamına gelir anlamaya çalışıyorum. Bana, Bu demektir 13 milyar yıl önce, Şimdi bunu görmek bu nerede galaksi oldu. Değil ne LY 13b uzak araçtır? Eğer öyleyse, Bu evrenin en azından olması gerektiğini ifade etmem 26 milyar yaşında? Demek istediğim, Tüm evren bir tek noktadan başladı; nerede olduğunu, bu galaksi nasıl olabilir 13 milyar yıl önce vardı sürece en azından 13 milyar yıl oraya? (Şu an için enflasyonist faz almamak…) Ben insanların uzay kendisi genişleyen olduğunu açıklamak duydum. Halt Bu ne anlama geliyor? Işığın hızı bir süre önce küçük olduğunu söyleyerek sadece bir meraklısı bir yol değil mi?
swansont 03-27-2007 09:10 AM


Originally Posted by Mowgli
(Posta 329204)
Demek istediğim, Tüm evren bir tek noktadan başladı; nerede olduğunu, bu galaksi nasıl olabilir 13 milyar yıl önce vardı sürece en azından 13 milyar yıl oraya? (Şu an için enflasyonist faz almamak…)

Geri kalan her şey almamak, nasıl bu demektir evrendir 26 milyar yaşında?


Originally Posted by Mowgli
(Posta 329204)
Ben insanların uzay kendisi genişleyen olduğunu açıklamak duydum. Halt Bu ne anlama geliyor? Işığın hızı bir süre önce küçük olduğunu söyleyerek sadece bir meraklısı bir yol değil mi?

ışığın hızı atom yapısının doğal bir parçasıdır, ince yapı sabiti (alfa). C değişiyordu ise, Daha sonra atom spektrumları desenleri değiştirmek zorunda kalacak. Alfa değiştiğini gösteren herhangi bir teyit veriler olmamıştır (Bunu iddia sıra kağıt olmuştur, ancak ölçümleri tekrarlamak birine ihtiyacım var), ve geri kalanı hiçbir değişiklik ile tüm tutarlı.

Kırlangıç 03-27-2007 11:25 AM

Onaylamak veya sözü swansont pekiştirmek için, zamanla değişen c dahil bazı saçak veya standart dışı kozmoloji var spekülasyon ve (veya alfa zaman içinde değişen), ama değişen sabitler şey sadece alır daha fazla hüküm out.I've aşkın bir süredir izliyor 5 yıl ve daha fazla kişi bakmak ve herhangi bir değişiklik olduğunu görünüyor AZ muhtemel delilleri incelemek. Onlar data.So ile daha doğru bir şekilde ekarte bunu göz ardı etmek muhtemelen en iyi “ışığın değişen hızı” biri kadar kozmoloji, standart ana kozmoloji ile iyice tanıdık.Sen yanılgılarını Mowgli var

  • Genel Görelilik (the 1915 teori) Özel İ koz (1905)
  • Eğer bunları doğru anlamak Onlar aslında çelişmeyen, SR sadece çok sınırlı bir lokal tatbik kabiliyetine sahiptir, çünkü, tarafından uzay geçeceğinden gibi:-)
  • GR ve SR çelişir seem Wherever, GR inanıyorum. Daha kapsamlı teori.
  • GR çok büyük mesafeler artırabilir oranı üzerinde hız sınırı yok. Sadece hız sınırı YEREL şeyler üzerinde (Eğer yakalamak ve bir foton geçemez)
  • Yani biz ve c daha hızlı bizden uzaklaşıyorsun olan şeyler gözlemlemek DO olabilir. (Bu kadar uzakta, SR geçerli değildir.)
  • Bu benim geçen yıl bence bir Sci Am makalesinde açıkladı
  • Google yazarın ismi Charles Lineweaver ve Tamara Davis.
  • Biz daha şu anda daha fazla şeyler bol hakkında bilmek 14 milyar LY uzak.
  • You need to learn some cosmology so you wont be confused by these things.
  • Also a “singularity” does not mean a single point. that is a popular mistake because the words SOUND the same.
  • A singularity can occur over an entire region, even an infinite region.

Also the “big bang” model doesn’t look like an explosion of matter whizzing away from some point. It shouldn’t be imagined like that. The best article explaining common mistakes people have is this Lineweaver and Davis thing in Sci Am. I think it was Jan or Feb 2005 but I could be a year off. Google it. Get it from your local library or find it online. Best advice I can give.

Mowgli 03-28-2007 01:30 AM

To swansont on why I thought 13 b LY implied an age of 26 b years:When you say that there is a galaxy at 13 b LY away, I understand it to mean that 13 billion years ago my time, the galaxy was at the point where I see it now (hangi 13 b LY away from me). Knowing that everything started from the same point, it must have taken the galaxy at least 13 b years to get where it was 13 b years ago. Bu yüzden 13+13. I’m sure I must be wrong.To Martin: Haklısın, I need to learn quite a bit more about cosmology. But a couple of things you mentioned surprise me — how do we observe stuff that is receding from as FTL? Demek istediğim, wouldn’t the relativistic Doppler shift formula give imaginary 1 z? And the stuff beyond 14 b LY away – are they “outside” the universe?I will certainly look up and read the authors you mentioned. Teşekkürler.
swansont 03-28-2007 03:13 AM


Originally Posted by Mowgli
(Posta 329393)
To swansont on why I thought 13 b LY implied an age of 26 b years:When you say that there is a galaxy at 13 b LY away, I understand it to mean that 13 billion years ago my time, the galaxy was at the point where I see it now (hangi 13 b LY away from me). Knowing that everything started from the same point, it must have taken the galaxy at least 13 b years to get where it was 13 b years ago. Bu yüzden 13+13. I’m sure I must be wrong.

That would depend on how you do your calibration. Looking only at a Doppler shift and ignoring all the other factors, if you know that speed correlates with distance, you get a certain redshift and you would probably calibrate that to mean 13b LY if that was the actual distance. That light would be 13b years old.

But as Martin has pointed out, space is expanding; the cosmological redshift is different from the Doppler shift. Because the intervening space has expanded, AFAIK the light that gets to us from a galaxy 13b LY away is not as old, because it was closer when the light was emitted. I would think that all of this is taken into account in the measurements, so that when a distance is given to the galaxy, it’s the actual distance.

Kırlangıç 03-28-2007 08:54 AM


Originally Posted by Mowgli
(Posta 329393)
I will certainly look up and read the authors you mentioned.

This post has 5 veya 6 links to that Sci Am article by Lineweaver and Davis…965#post142965

It is post #65 on the Astronomy links sticky thread

It turns out the article was in the March 2005 issue.

I think it’s comparatively easy to read—well written. So it should help.

When you’ve read the Sci Am article, ask more questions—your questions might be fun to try and answer:-)

Twin Paradox – Al 2

The Twin Paradox is usually explained away by arguing that the traveling twin feels the motion because of his acceleration/deceleration, and therefore ages slower.

But what will happen if the twins both accelerate symmetrically? Yani, they start from rest from one space point with synchronized clocks, and get back to the same space point at rest by accelerating away from each other for some time and decelerating on the way back. By the symmetry of the problem, it seems that when the two clocks are together at the end of the journey, at the same point, and at rest with respect to each other, they have to agree.

Sonra tekrar, during the whole journey, each clock is in motion (accelerated or not) with respect to the other one. In SR, every clock that is in motion with respect to an observer’s clock is supposed run slower. Ya, the observer’s clock is always the fastest. Bu yüzden, for each twin, the other clock must be running slower. Ancak, when they come back together at the end of the journey, they have to agree. This can happen only if each twin sees the other’s clock running faster at some point during the journey. What does SR say will happen in this imaginary journey?

(Note that the acceleration of each twin can be made constant. Have the twins cross each other at a high speed at a constant linear deceleration. They will cross again each other at the same speed after sometime. During the crossings, their clocks can be compared.)

Unreal Time

Farsight wrote:Time is a velocity-dependent subjective measure of event succession rather than something fundamental – the events mark the time, the time doesn’t mark the events. This means the stuff out there is space rather than space-time, and is an “aether” veiled by subjective time.

I like your definition of time. It is close to my own view that time is “unreal.” It is possible to treat space as real and space-time as something different, as you do. This calls for some careful thought. I will outline my thinking in this post and illustrate it with an example, if my friends don’t pull me out for lunch before I can finish. :)

The first question we need to ask ourselves is why space and time seem coupled? The answer is actually too simple to spot, and it is in your definition of time. Space and time mix through our concept of velocity and our brain’s ability to sense motion. There is an even deeper connection, which is that space is a cognitive representation of the photons inputs to our eyes, but we will get to it later.

Let’s assume for a second that we had a sixth sense that operated at an infinite speed. Yani, if star explodes at a million light years from us, we can sense it immediately. We will see it only after a million years, but we sense it instantly. Biliyorum, it is a violation of SR, cannot happen and all that, but stay with me for a second. Şimdi, a little bit of thinking will convince you that the space that we sense using this hypothetical sixth sense is Newtonian. Burada, space and time can be completely decoupled, absolute time can be defined etc. Starting from this space, we can actually work out how we will see it using light and our eyes, knowing that the speed of light is what it is. It will turn out, açıkça, that we seen events with a delay. That is a first order (or static) etkisi. The second order effect is the way we perceive objects in motion. It turns out that we will see a time dilation and a length contraction (for objects receding from us.)

Let me illustrate it a little further using echolocation. Assume that you are a blind bat. You sense your space using sonar pings. Can you sense a supersonic object? If it is coming towards you, by the time the reflected ping reaches you, it has gone past you. If it is going away from you, your pings can never catch up. Başka bir deyişle, faster than sound travel is “forbidden.” If you make one more assumption – the speed of the pings is the same for all bats regardless of their state of motion – you derive a special relativity for bats where the speed of sound is the fundamental property of space and time!

We have to dig a little deeper and appreciate that space is no more real than time. Space is a cognitive construct created out of our sensory inputs. If the sense modality (light for us, sound for bats) has a finite speed, that speed will become a fundamental property of the resultant space. And space and time will be coupled through the speed of the sense modality.

Bu, elbette, is only my own humble interpretation of SR. I wanted to post this on a new thread, but I get the feeling that people are a little too attached to their own views in this forum to be able to listen.

Leo wrote:Minkowski spacetime is one interpretation of the Lorentz transforms, but other interpretations, the original Lorentz-Poincaré Relativity or modernized versions of it with a wave model of matter (LaFreniere or Close or many others), work in a perfectly euclidean 3D space.

So we end up with process slowdown and matter contraction, but NO time dilation or space contraction. The transforms are the same though. So why does one interpretation lead to tensor metric while the others don’t? Or do they all? I lack the theoretical background to answer the question.

Hi Leo,

If you define LT as a velocity dependent deformation of an object in motion, then you can make the transformation a function of time. There won’t be any warping and complications of metric tensors and stuff. Actually what I did in my book is something along those lines (though not quite), as you know.

The trouble arises when the transformation matrix is a function of the vector is transforming. Bu yüzden, if you define LT as a matrix operation in a 4-D space-time, you can no longer make it a function of time through acceleration any more than you can make it a function of position (as in a velocity field, Örneğin.) The space-time warping is a mathematical necessity. Because of it, you lose coordinates, and the tools that we learn in our undergraduate years are no longer powerful enough to handle the problem.

Of Rotation, LT and Acceleration

In “Philosophical Implications” forum, there was an attempt to incorporate acceleration into Lorentz transformation using some clever calculus or numerical techniques. Such an attempt will not work because of a rather interesting geometric reason. I thought I would post the geometric interpretation of Lorentz transformation (or how to go from SR to GR) burada.

Let me start with a couple of disclaimers. First of, what follows is my understanding of LT/SR/GR. I post it here with the honest belief that it is right. Although I have enough academic credentials to convince myself of my infallibility, who knows? People much smarter than me get proven wrong every day. Ve, if we had our way, we would prove even Einstein himself wrong right here in this forum, wouldn’t we? :D İkincisi, what I write may be too elementary for some of the readers, perhaps even insultingly so. I request them to bear with it, considering that some other readers may find it illuminating. Thirdly, this post is not a commentary on the rightness or wrongness of the theories; it is merely a description of what the theories say. Ya da daha doğrusu, my version of what they say. With those disclaimers out of the way, let’s get started…

LT is a rotation in the 4-D space-time. Since it not easy to visualize 4-D space-time rotation, let’s start with a 2-D, pure space rotation. One fundamental property of a geometry (such as 2-D Euclidean space) is its metric tensor. The metric tensor defines the inner product between two vectors in the space. In normal (Euclidean or flat) spaces, it also defines the distance between two points (or the length of a vector).

Though the metric tensor has the dreaded “tensor” word in its name, once you define a coordinate system, it is only a matrix. For Euclidean 2-D space with x and y coordinates, it is the identity matrix (two 1’s along the diagonal). Let’s call it G. The inner product between vectors A and B is A.B = Trans(Bir) G B, which works out to be a_1b_1+a_2b_2. Distance (or length of A) can be defined as \sqrt{A.A}.

So far in the post, the metric tensor looks fairly useless, only because it is the identity matrix for Euclidean space. SR (or LT), diğer taraftan, uses Minkowski space, which has a metric that can be written with [-1, 1, 1, 1] along the diagonal with all other elements zero – assuming time t is the first component of the coordinate system. Let’s consider a 2-D Minkowski space for simplicity, with time (t) and distance (x) axes. (This is a bit of over-simplification because this space cannot handle circular motion, which is popular in some threads.) In units that make c = 1, you can easily see that the invariant distance using this metric tensor is \sqrt{x^2 - t^2}.


Unreal Evren — Discussion with Gibran

Hi again,You raise a lot of interesting questions. Let me try to answer them one by one.

You’re saying that our observations of an object moving away from us would look identical in either an SR or Galilean context, and therefore this is not a good test for SR.

What I’m saying is slightly different. The coordinate transformation in SR is derived considering only receding objects and sensing it using radar-like round trip light travel time. It is then kabul that the transformation laws thus derived apply to all objects. Because the round trip light travel is used, the transformation works for approaching objects as well, but not for things moving in other directions. But SR assumes that the transformation is a property of space and time and asserts that it applies to all moving (inertial) frames of reference regardless of direction.

We have to go a little deeper and ask ourselves what that statement means, what it means to talk about the properties of space. We cannot think of a space independent of our perception. Physicists are typically not happy with this starting point of mine. They think of space as something that exists independent of our sensing it. And they insist that SR applies to this independently existing space. I beg to differ. I consider space as a cognitive construct based on our perceptual inputs. There is an underlying reality that is the cause of our perception of space. It may be nothing like space, but let’s assume, for the sake of argument, that the underlying reality is like Galilean space-time. How would be perceive it, given that we perceive it using light (one-way travel of light, not two-way as SR assumes)? It turns out that our perceptual space would have time dilation and length contraction and all other effect predicted by SR. So my thesis is that the underlying reality obeys Galilean space-time and our perceptual space obeys something like SR. (It is possible that if I assume that our perception uses two-way light travel, I may get SR-like transformation. I haven’t done it because it seems obvious to me that we perceive a star, Örneğin, by sensing the light from it rather than flashing a light at it.)

This thesis doesn’t sit well with physicists, and indeed with most people. They mistake “perceptual effects” to be something like optical illusions. My point is more like space itself is an illusion. If you look at the night sky, you know that the stars you see are not “Gerçek” in the sense that they are not there when you are looking at them. This is simply because the information carrier, yani ışık, has a finite speed. If the star under observation is in motion, our perception of its motion is distorted for the same reason. SR is an attempt to formalize our perception of motion. Since motion and speed are concepts that mix space and time, SR has to operate on “space-time continuum.” Since SR is based on perceptual effects, it requires an observer and describes motion as he perceives it.

But are you actually saying that not a single experiment has been done with objects moving in any other direction than farther away? And what about experiments on time dilation where astronauts go into space and return with clocks showing less elapsed time than ones that stayed on the ground? Doesn’t this support the ideas inherent in SR?

Experiments are always interpreted in the light of a theory. Öyle her zaman a model based interpretation. I know that this is not a convincing argument for you, so let me give you an example. Scientists have observed superluminal motion in certain celestial objects. They measure the angular speed of the celestial object, and they have some estimate of its distance from us, so they can estimate the speed. If we didn’t have SR, there would be nothing remarkable about this observation of superluminality. Since we do have SR, one has to find an “explanation” for this. The explanation is this: when an object approaches us at a shallow angle, it can appear to come in quite a bit faster than its real speed. Thus the “Gerçek” speed is subluminal while the “belirgin” speed may be superluminal. This interpretation of the observation, Bana göre, breaks the philosophical grounding of SR that it is a description of the motion as it appears to the observer.

Şimdi, there are other observations of where almost symmetric ejecta are seen on opposing jets in symmetric celestial objects. The angular speeds may indicate superluminality in both the jets if the distance of the object is sufficiently large. Since the jets are assumed to be back-to-back, if one jet is approaching us (thereby giving us the illusion of superluminality), the other jet has bet receding and can never appear superluminal, sürece, elbette, the underlying motion is superluminal. The interpretation of this observation is that the distance of the object is limited by the “fact” that real motion cannot be superluminal. This is what I mean by experiments being open to theory or model based interpretations.

In the case of moving clocks being slower, it is never a pure SR experiment because you cannot find space without gravity. Ayrıca, one clock has to be accelerated or decelerated and GR applies. Aksi halde, the age-old twin paradox would apply.

I know there have been some experiments done to support Einstein’s theories, like the bending of light due to gravity, but are you saying that all of them can be consistently re-interpreted according to your theory? If this is so, it’s dam surprising! Demek istediğim, no offense to you – you’re obviously a very bright individual, and you know much more about this stuff than I do, but I’d have to question how something like this slipped right through physicists’ fingers for 100 Yıl.

These are gravity related questions and fall under GR. Benim “teori” doesn’t try to reinterpret GR or gravity at all. I put theory in inverted quotes because, bana, it is a rather obvious observation that there is a distinction between what we see and the underlying causes of our perception. The algebra involved is fairly simple by physics standards.

Supposing you’re right in that space and time are actually Galilean, and that the effects of SR are artifacts of our perception. How then are the results of the Michelson-Morley experiments explained? I’m sorry if you did explain it in your book, but it must have flown right over my head. Or are we leaving this as a mystery, an anomaly for future theorists to figure out?

I haven’t completely explained MMX, more or less leaving it as a mystery. I think the explanation hinges on how light is reflected off a moving mirror, which I pointed out in the book. Suppose the mirror is moving away from the light source at a speed of v in our frame of reference. Light strikes it at a speed of c-v. What is the speed of the reflected light? If the laws of reflection should hold (it’s not immediately obvious that they should), then the reflected light has to have a speed of c-v as well. This may explain why MMX gives null result. I haven’t worked out the whole thing though. I will, once I quit my day job and dedicate my life to full-time thinking. :-)

My idea is not a replacement theory for all of Einstein’s theories. It’s merely a reinterpretation of one part of SR. Since the rest of Einstein’s edifice is built on this coordinate transformation part, I’m sure there will be some reinterpretation of the rest of SR and GR also based on my idea. Yine, this is a project for later. My reinterpretation is not an attempt to prove Einstein’s theories wrong; I merely want to point out that they apply to reality as we perceive it.

Genel, it was worth the $5 I payed. Thanks for the good read. Don’t take my questions as an assault on your proposal – I’m honestly in the dark about these things and I absolutely crave light (he he). If you could kindly answer them in your spare time, I’d love to share more ideas with you. It’s good to find a fellow thinker to bounce cool ideas like this off of. I’ll PM you again once I’m fully done the book. Yine, it was a very satisfying read.

Teşekkürler! I’m glad that you like my ideas and my writing. I don’t mind criticism at all. Hope I have answered most of your questions. Değilse, or if you want to disagree with my answers, feel free to write back. Always a pleasure to chat about these things even if we don’t agree with each other.

– Best regards,
– Manoj

Anti-relativity and Superluminality

Leo wrote:I have some problems with the introductory part though, when you confront light travel effects and relativistic transforms. You correctly state that all perceptual illusions have been cleared away in the conception of Special Relativity, but you also say that these perceptual illusions remained as a subconscious basis for the cognitive model of Special Relativity. Do I understand what you mean or do I get it wrong?

The perceptual effects are known in physics; they are called Light Travel Time effects (LTT, to cook up an acronym). These effects are considered an optical illusion on the motion of the object under observation. Once you take out the LTT effects, you get the “Gerçek” motion of the object . This real motion is supposed to obey SR. This is the current interpretation of SR.

My argument is that the LTT effects are so similar to SR that we should think of SR as just a formalization of LTT. (Aslında, a slightly erroneous formalization.) Many reasons for this argument:
1. We cannot disentagle the “optical illusion” because many underlying configurations give rise to the same perception. Başka bir deyişle, going from what we see to what is causing our perception is a one to many problem.
2. SR coordinate transformation is partially based on LTT effects.
3. LTT effects are stronger than relativistic effects.

Probably for these reasons, what SR does is to say that what we see is what it is really like. It then tries to mathematically describe what we see. (This is what I meant by a formaliztion. ) Daha sonra, when we figured out that LTT effects didn’t quite match with SR (as in the observation of “belirgin” superluminal motion), we thought we had to “take out” the LTT effects and then say that the underlying motion (or space and time) obeyed SR. What I’m suggesting in my book and articles is that we should just guess what the underlying space and time are like and work out what our perception of it will be (because going the other way is an ill-posed one-to-many problem). My first guess, doğal, was Galilean space-time. This guess results in a rather neat and simple explantions of GRBs and DRAGNs as luminal booms and their aftermath.

Daily Mail'de üzerine tartışma,en (İngiltere)

Daily Mail forumunda, bir katılımcı (denilen “neyin-a-isim”) hakkında konuşmaya başladı Unreal Evren Temmuzda 15, 2006. Bu forumda oldukça şiddetle saldırıya uğradı. Bir Web arama sırasında görmek oldu ve adım ve onu savunmak için karar.

15 Temmuz, 2006

tarafından gönderildi: neyin-in-a-adı 15/07/06 at 09:28 AM

Ah, Kek, sen bana ne yapmaları gerektiğini avunmak için başka bir sebep verdik- ve ben şu anda daha ilginç olduğunu söyleyebilirim.Ben bazı fikirler formüle çalışıyordum ve bir gelecek var- ama bit size vermek gerekecek.Ben pseudoscience dalmak istiyorsanız veya kuantum teorisi ile her şeyi açıklamak söylüyor woo-ish yol yapmayız, ama burada başlatmayı deneyin:

The “Dergi Makalesi” alt kısmındaki bağlantı biz başka yerlerde tartışılan bazı noktaları dokunuyor. Bu konu dışı biraz gider, ama aynı zamanda bulabilirsiniz “Felsefe” üstündeki bağlantı ilginç sol.

tarafından gönderildi: patopreto üzerinde 15/07/06 at 06:17 PM

Web sitesi wian.One bu cümle geçmiş EAD gerek olmadığını ilgili –

Fizik teorileri gerçekliğin bir açıklaması vardır. Gerçeklik bizim duyu okumalarının yaratılır. duyularımız tüm çalışma aracı olarak ışık kullanarak bilerek, ışığın hızı, bizim gerçekte temel öneme sahip olduğunu bir sürpriz?

O tis web sitesine gerçekleştirmek için tam cahil saçmalık olduğunu. Ben bu noktada durdu.

16 Temmuz, 2006

tarafından gönderildi: neyin-in-a-adı 16/07/06 at 09:04 AM

Ia € ™ sadece dikkatle daha o biraz okumak için geri kaldın. Ben yazar bunu böyle phrased neden bilmiyorum ™ € dona ama kesinlikle o ne demek olduğunu:(i) “Neyin Bizim algı gerçek duyularımız okumalarının dışında oluşturulur edilir.”Ben tartışmak ™ çoğu fizikçi wouldnâ € düşünüyorum  onlar olur? biz anlamak olarak kuantum düzeyinde gerçeklik azından € ™ t var doesnâ; Sadece parçacıklar başka fazla yerde veya devlet var olma eğilimi daha var olduğunu söyleyebiliriz.(ii) Biz optik ya da radyo teleskoptan gelen pick up bilgiler, gama-ışını detektörleri ve benzeri, onlar geçmişte uzak nesnelerin devlet vardı gösterir olarak, radyasyon geçiş süresi nedeniyle. uzayda derinine nedenle evrenin tarihinin geri ileri bakmamızı sağlıyor.Bu noktayı ifade etmek alışılmadık bir yoldur, katılıyorum, ama orada diğer bilgileri devalüasyon değil. Özellikle oldukça fazla detaya gitmek diğer gazetelere bağlantılar vardır, ama ben daha genel bir görünüm sunuyordu şeyle başlamak istedim.

Ben fizik öğrenim benimkinden çok daha gelişmiş olduğu izlenimini almak- Daha önce söylediğim gibi ben sadece bir amatör kulüpler, Ben belki de en fazla biraz daha ilgimi geçtiniz rağmen. Benim akıl herhangi kusurlu olup olmadığını düzeltilmesi için mutluyum, Oldukça basit şeyler ne olduğunu ben şimdiye kadar söylediğim rağmen.

Ben Keka en meydan yanıt olarak ifade etmeye çalışıyorum fikirler yine benim kendi ve vardır, Ben sizin veya bir başkasının onları aşağı vurmak için oldukça hazırım. Hala benim düşüncelerimi formüle ve ben fizikçilerin maddenin doğası kullanmak modeli esas alınarak başlamak istedim, Plank mesafesi ve kuantum belirsizlik de uzay-zamanın grenli yapısı aşağı gidiş.

Bir veya iki gün içinde bu geri gelmek gerekecek, ama sizin veya bir başkasının karşıt görünüm sunmak istiyor bu arada eğer, lütfen yap.

tarafından gönderildi: patopreto üzerinde 16/07/06 at 10:52 AM

Ben yazar bunu böyle phrased neden bilmiyorum ™ € dona ama kesinlikle o ne demek olduğunu:

Ben yazma net çıkmak olduğunu düşünüyorum! WIAN – Eğer o farklı bir şey demek ne diyor yeniden yazdım.

yazar oldukça açıktır – “biz bu yer ve zaman kabul ettikten sonra beyin tarafından oluşturulan bilişsel modelin bir parçası olan, ve bu özel görelilik bilişsel modeli için geçerlidir, Biz modelin arkasındaki fiziksel nedenleri üzerinde düşünmek olabilir, Mutlak gerçeklik kendisi.”Â

Blah Blah!

Yazar, Eller Thulasidas, OCBC Singapur banka ve bir çalışanı kendini tarif edilmektedir “amateur philosopher”. Ne diye yazıyor bir dini etkisinde tekbenci felsefesi başka bir şey gibi görünüyor. Solipsism felsefi açıdan ilginç ama çabuk yıkılır. Manoj açıklama olmadan böyle titrek gerekçesiyle yaptığı argümanlar başlatabilirsiniz, o zaman ben gerçekten olarak kendini onun açıklamalarını kabul etmek daha almak için başka bir ders var “amatör”.

Belki geri MEQUACK için!